"Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin

Posted by on 2/12/2003 12:14:46 PM.

There are currently 9 replies.

• 
  1 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by 753 on 02/14/2003
  
  

  Well Susan I can't say I wasn't forewarned by the author that this piece could stir the proverbial pot. Guess this is what happens as you approach retirement and can forget about all the PC stuff.

  
  
  

  I enjoyed what you wrote. It's quite interesting that you've argued for paraprofessionals. One of the solutions I see is the new web based courses where students can take quite a bit of the material online then get together for brief periods of time to do the hands on stuff. I've heard through the grapevine of one University program that has 150 students in its distance O&M class. Haven't taken the time to check it out myself, but if true, this is also a viable way of dramatically increasing the number of service providers.

  
  
  

  As for University programs in general, I have been speaking with a few of those that do have web courses to see if they would be interested in putting together a faculty that is not based at the U. My motives here are a bit selfish in that I think I could teach a low vision course for any number of U's without having to physically relocate and live there. So far I haven't found any takers. Perhaps I haven't found the right model or language to get a better reception.

  
  
  

  As for consumer groups, quite frankly, over the years, I've had wonderful conversations with members of NFB. My experience is quite favorable. It's the leadership who act like my thoughts and ideas have no value. I think they simply "plug the tape in" and can't get out of the attack mode. I continue to look for someone with an NFB philosophy who is willing to acknowledge that some things from both sides work and some don't. Let's do research to ID which elements of both programs work and of greatest importance to ID the characteristics of people who have success in the different models. Every heart patient or cancer patient doesn't get the same treatment, nor do all children get the same type of education (LD and gifted to name but a few) why should every lv or blind person have to have the same program?

  
  
  

  Regards,

  
  
  

  DUANE GERUSCHAT

  
  
  
  

  ---

• 
  2 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by nancyn on 02/20/2003
  
  A great article delving into tough issues. It's great to see such a respected professional open doors of discussion, to confirm that there is never just one answer, just one way. I agree that we all should be looking for ways to bring us together to meet goals; whether the issue is the braille code, paraprofessionals or whatever.
  
  All the best,
  Nancy Niebrugge
  

  ---

• 
  3 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by afbpress on 03/14/2003
  
  

  The following response was sent directly to Susan Spungin, and has been posted with the permission of the writer:

  
  
  

  Susan,

  
  
  

  Thanks so much for the speaker's corner article. Just read it and it will be part of our discussion in class tonight! It was really well developed and provocative!!! I will be interested in what feedback you receive and how it may change the direction of discussions. There are additional issues I would have liked to see you comment on - but you were probably right to limit it to 3 pages. We need to be talking about issues in open forums and to understand how children's, parents', and teachers' lives are impacted by trends such as those that you described.

  
  
  

  Anne L. Corn

  
  
  
  

  ---

• 
  4 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by Rona Shaw on 03/17/2003
  
  

  Susan-

  
  

  Thank you for taking the proverbial 'bull' by the 'horns;' I couldn't agree with you more on all issues.
  I am starting talks within my college to (hopefully) develop an Associates level training program for paraeducators who work with learners who are VI; I expect a great dealof criticism if this gets off the ground. However, as you, I see the paraeducator as a valuable rsource, and with training, an even more valuable resource. We need to do more than than pay lip service to the concept of the paraeducator being part of the team....

  
  

  ---

• 
  5 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by spaniel on 03/28/2003
  
  I am so heartened to see that the comments on this article are generally supportive of Dr. Spungin. While some of the specifics could certainly be debated, I think all of us can agree that her insightful and articulate comments are worthy of consideration and are a wake-up call to the blind community and those working in the blindness field. I commend Dr. Spungin highly for her courageous and creative approach to these issues.
  

  ---

• 
  6 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by dotlessbraille on 03/31/2003
  
  

  I really enjoyed this article and commend Dr. Spungin for writing it. As a relative newcomer to the field of braille transcribing, I have personally experienced the "clubby" atmosphere and strong efforts to keep us outsiders out. Yes and double yes: train the paraprofessionals! We all have a role to play.

  
  
  

  I do have one very serious disagreement with the article. I am a scientist: a chemist and computational scientist. I have spent much of the last two years carefully studying the Nemeth code and the mathematics portions of the UEBC. Unfortunately, you CANNOT do real math with the UEBC. I understand the philosophical appeal of a unified code--the Nemeth code itself is very close to a unified code since it incorporates literary braille. The UEBC designers made a huge mistake when they chose the UK maths code as the basis for the mathematics portion of the UEBC. The Nemeth code is the best braille mathematics code in the world. It has been unchanged for 30 years and barely unchanged for 50; the other braille mathematics codes are still in a state of flux because of their inadequacies.

  
  
  

  The NFB and the ACB were right to vote against the seriously flawed UEBC. A bad mistake was made at the very start of the UEBC effort; let's face up to it and start over. Don't "throw good money after bad" is also a wise saying.

  
  
  

  Sincerly,
  
  Dr. Susan Jolly
  
  Los Alamos, NM

  
  

  ---

• 
  7 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by Web Admin. on 08/13/2003
  
  

  The following response was sent directly to Susan Spungin, and has been posted with the permission of the writer:

  
  
  

  Dear Dr. Spungin:

  
  
  

  Thank you for your excellent article "Cannibalism is Alive and Well". I couldn't agree more, especially with your thoughts on itinerate teaching.

  
  
  

  Currently, I work as a Rehabilitation Supervisor for the Florida Division of Blind Services. I would like to share my background with you, as I believe I can speak from some very relevant experience.

  
  
  

  I am legally blind and very blessed to have supportive parents and a wonderful teacher of the visually impaired. I attended a regular public school where a resource room was established. All children with visual impairments in our county went to this same school. In the earlier grades, we spent much of our time with the tvi learning Braille and other adaptive skills. As we became more proficient with our reading and writing skills, we spent more time in the regular classroom and less with the resource teacher. Consequently, we had the best of both worlds, so to speak. We had many of the benefits of a residential school with the opportunity for mainstreaming.

  
  
  

  Because I am in my late 40's and went to school before many of the low vision aids we have today were available, my vision teacher insisted that I learn both Braille and print. I am so grateful that I have both skills. Today, I use print and Braille daily for work and home activities. If I give a presentation and want to use notes, I do not have to hold a paper in front of my face to see it.

  
  
  

  After obtaining my MS degree, I began my career in the vision field with the Division of Blind Services as a rehabilitation teacher providing both at home and center based services. Later, I worked as a rehabilitation counselor and most recently have been promoted to supervisor. I have been working for the Division of Blind Services for 16 years.

  
  
  

  Throughout my career, I have seen so many students graduate from high school with poor reading and communication skills. Research has shown that our clients who are most successful use either print or Braille proficiently. As with the sighted population, those who cannot read do not have good jobs. Moreover, since semi-skilled jobs are disappearing from our economy, it is even more important that our students achieve their highest academic potential. I do not think that Itinerate teachers can provide the hours of teaching necessary for students to become good Braille readers.

  
  
  

  Please use this information in any way that you think might be helpful to our field. Also, I would be happy to assist with this cause in any way that I can.

  
  
  

  Thank you for your time and interest.

  
  
  

  Warmest regards,
  
  Mary Ellen Ottman
  
  Rehabilitation Supervisor
  
  Division of Blind Services

  
  

  ---

• 
  8 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by Web Admin. on 06/14/2004
  
  

  The following response was sent directly to Susan Spungin, and has been posted with the permission of the writer:

  
  
  

  Dr. Spungin, I am currently enrolled at WMich in the TCVI Distance Ed. program as well as being a TCVI in GA public school system (resource school setting and itinerant setting). I am writing a "trends" paper on specialized schools, itinerant, and resource for a class under the direction of Dr. Annette Skellenger. You have interesting points in Itinerant Teaching and Residential Schools sections of your paper.

  
  

  Your statement "Created a false sense of security", in reference to the expanded core curriculum being taught under the itinerant model is entirely correct. You raise very intense concerns that are hopefully on the minds of all of us.

  
  
  

  Phil Hatlen proposes developing a partnership between local schools and schools for the blind. What are you thoughts or concerns with this proposal?

  
  
  

  I know you are busy, but I would really love to quote you in my paper.

  
  
  

  Thanks for your input.

  
  
  

  Marye Beth Cosey
  
  Teacher of Students with Visual Impairments

  
  

  ---

• 
  9 . Re: "Cannibalism is Alive and Well" says Dr. Susan Jay Spungin
  Posted by Web Admin. on 06/14/2004
  
  

  The following response has been posted with the permission of the writer:

  
  
  

  Hi! Sorry that I am late in replying. I believe Dr. Hatlen has valid a suggestion, that being, developing partnerships with Residential Schools for the Blind and surely the Texas School for the Blind is a model that should be replicated. However, not every state has a school for the blind and they often find that their school is under attack and fighting for survival. If there were more situations like we find in Texas with the going back and forth of students with visually impairments when their individual needs dictate we would all be better off.

  
  
  

  I believe the more doable answer would be to change the role of the itinerant teacher and limit their caseload size to a high of 15 and a low of 5 depending on the makeup of the students they serve. The issue, as always, is money but with the better use of the paraprofessional and the limiting of the TVI's role to the Expanded Core Curriculum only, things might improve-perhaps a two year AA degree for a TVI aide would not only help the problem but be a means of helping the teacher shortage as well.

  
  

  I hope this helps.

  
  

  Thanks.

  
  

  Susan Spungin

  
  

  ---

Post a new response | Track this topic by e-mail